Where there is smoke, there is fire. I am not defending his position or arguing against it. I don't have near the time on the Utah trails as most of you, but my limited exposure has shown that there is considerable trail and gate damage by UTV's going where they should'nt. and a very poor reputation for being trail "hogs" and driving very fast. That is just my perspective. I believe that most UTV's are more closely suited to jeep trails than ATV two track.

That's a flame fest on his blog site..
 
Just like any sport, there are always doofus's out there that ruin it for us, whether on ATV, Motorcycle or SxS.

Doug lives in Marysvale? I thought he was in the Payson area..

While on the surface it appears that he simply likes 50" trails and wants more of them (who doesn't), what he is saying is much more important than just that.  
 
In effect he is calling for the Paiute to structure itself in a way that pretty much precludes UTV riders from wanting to ride here.  
 
I think that is very divisive, and the last thing we need in this industry is for our own media representatives to be creating a divided and conquer scenario.  
 
Basically Doug doesn't like UTVs, I'm fine with that.  What I don't like is the way he is calling for the Paiute Trail to adopt a strategy that will essentially keep UTV riders from the Paiute.  Regardless of how you might feel about ATVs vs UTVs the simple math is that UTVs are a growing segment and they represent a MUCH needed economic impact that Doug is simply willing to abandon to get what he wants.  
 
Frankly I don't think this blog entry has anything to do with saving the trail and everything to do with Doug.  
 
This is my response to his blog:  
 
Doug, this is what you have said. UTVs are to the Paiute Trail as Extreme Rock Buggies and super fast sand rails are to Glammis. Ergo we need to do something to stop the extreme damage being caused to the Paiute by these UTVs. So your answer to that is to limit UTV access by making the trail width exclude them, then they wont come to the Paiute.  
 
You specifically call for this saying the main Paiute loop should be 50". You know that these few 50" sections on the Paiute are the ones that make it unpleasant for UTV riders on the Paiute and you want to make it as unpleasant as possible so that the people you don't like will find somewhere else to ride.  
 
I find your efforts to divide this industry for your own personal agenda sad. This is NOT about saving the trail, its about Doug.  
 
You know full well that UTVs are not destroying the Paiute and that the Paiute is not under the kinds of pressures or environmental threats as Moab and Glammis simply because it is a well managed trail system and you also know that IF the Paiute opens a FEW 50" trails to wider vehicles that this does not pose any more risk to the environment and certainly does not create anywhere near the concerns that Moab and Glammis deal with.  
 
The way you categorically designate UTVs as THE vehicle that will ultimately destroy the Paiute is patently misguided.

It's too bad that guys like this have to open their mouths . When someone starts off with negativity , rarely does any good come from it .  
 
I can understand  some of the argument  but is this  really necessary ? Do you ever see SUWA argue with the Sierra Club ? In public ?  
 
I am adamant about different OHVs' staying on their respective trails . That means singletrack gets theirs , atvs' get theirs and so on . 50" trails are needed not only for the experience  they offer but  they are less intrusive on the environment. ( hate to say that but they are )  
 
I don't really like UTVs' but some people do . I'm fine with that as long as they follow the rules as everyone else should .  
 
Doug needs to get a grip . And if he needs help with moving I'll bring a U-Haul down and spend the day . The Paiute has enough problems with the trails being graded  and loss of  " rough " 50" trails and riding opportunities . It doesn't need this too .

Apprently Doug thinks the only reason I have a problem with his blog post is because of some phantom personal Vendetta against him.
 
I'm still laughing about that.  What on earth I would have a personal vendetta gainst him for is beyond me.
 
I have helped him numerous times.
 
Now I have a problem with his publicly stated opinion that UTVs are destroying the Piaute and suddenly I have a vendetta.
 
I'm truly sorry this is the only way he can defend his position.

You know , I 'm going to back peddle on this a bit . I have spent quite a bit of time reading and rereading  from Dougs' site and I think that I have learned a bit .  
 
 I don't think that he necessarily wants to shut down UTVs ,  I  think that all  he is pushing for is more 50" trails . I think that he  could have explained himself better at the beginning , but hey , I want more 50" trails too !
 
The FS has a tough job to do managing different user groups and trying to make everyone happy . We KNOW all about the gates that get torn apart, especially on Max Reid . I KNOW the patience of the FS is wearing thin on this issue .  
 
Lets work together before we lose something that will really get everyone  upset .

Quote from RedMan on 02/19/12 at 16:22:01:

How do you keep water in them ther hot tubs?

Quote from SSpeckerwood on 02/25/12 at 14:45:22:

 
Well I am sorry you do not like SxS.  I will still have my wife riding one.
 
But after looking at some of your pictures I am more concerned about you being out there messing up my snowmobile trails.  You need to stay on dirt and keep off my winter trails.
 
Everyone can find something to complain about.
 
StGeorge

Really!!!!  I can go just as fast on my sportsman and cause just as much damage if I want to and leave just as much trash.   Stupid people can get behind a wheel of anything and destroy not just sxs.  I ride with alot of people that drive sxs and none of them destroy the land or leave trash and go 65 mph plus.  And if the people are going to fast at five mile pass get off the parking lot area and that will all go away or talk to the person about your issue most people would understand.

What about the 50 rzr.  Thats a sxs.

I have and drive a rzr, also have had and still have atv's. it is not the machine that srews up the landscape it is the person driving whatever type the machine is, i have seen atv's, sxs, motorcycles, snowmobiles and 4x4 full size vehicles tear up mountains, again it is the driver, it is like saying guns kill people, no idiots with guns kill people. ST George, as far as snowmobile trails i have riden many groomed trails on an ATV and done it legaly and have also helped several snowmobliers out of problems ect due to me being prepaired for where i ride and them not. I also had a atv rider help me out once as i had used all 20 of my plugs on 2 sidewall cuts on my atv and he thought maybe 4r more would help it didnt but i was glad he stopped. again it is the riders not the machines. So i think that is a crock that anyone can say they dont like @%@$^@@& machines as they do damage  

And my grandkids are able to enjoy the trails  because of the rzr sxs

Yes the rzr is 50 wide.  And I agree idoits are the ones that screw up the trails not machines.

While I thoroughly agree that there ARE idiots that go around the 50" gates in side x sides, there are a great  majority that do obey the rules.  I drive our sxs around the trails in Marysvale while my husband rides his atv.  We stay on the larger trails, do not go flying down the trail, and obey the rules.  We like to take our dog and she is so large that an atv is not a viable option.  Just because you met one bad sxs driver, don't blast us all!  We have been coming to Utah for more than ten years to ride the Pauite and wouldn't endanger it in any way!  

I get what you're saying, totally. The person you spoke too need to have the law involved early on. I know you hate to go to that extream and mess up someones weekend, but sometimes it's what's needed.
 
My point is that we ALL need to present a united front against abuse of what we have. The people on this site, as far as I've seen, agree. We don't want to ban groups of riders because of a few idiots.
 
We have a RZR because my wife can't drive an ATV for extended periods because of past injuries. I'm pushing 60 yrs young, and I assure you, we don't race around.  

Quote from StGeorge on 02/26/12 at 19:45:11:

 
 
 
 
 
its unfortunate that at 70yrs old you totally miss the point of what a 24 yr old has tried to get across.  
 
ok, you have a sport quad. my apologies for not naming exactly what machines are classified under the proper category.  
 
once again, not everyone out there is a a$$hole.

Quote from quadforce on 02/27/12 at 06:59:54:

 
 
^^^^^^^x2 what you said Quadforce  
The 2 of us had the chance to go down to the Swell area 2 weeks ago to help on a trail signing project. It was a great day we had ATV guys & gal motorcycle guys and several of us in jeeps. We learned alot like there is always something  we as ATV/UTV  people can do to help keep trails open and open new trails. And as a side benefit we get to find new cool places to ride.

As one who rides the Paiute just about every other day, I have a problem with someone who singles out SXSs as people who drive too fast.  I ride mostly ATVs and as far as SXSs are concerned the great majority putt around with their families in their machines and are very courteous and conscientious of others.  Although Doug's blog does advocate for 50 inch trails, he does it by indicting a whole class of vehicles and their operators.  Doug you know you are wrong here and you should apologize.  Doug you know where to find me if you would like to discuss this further.