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Are We Not A State (Utah) (Read 1881 times)
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Are We Not A State (Utah)
02/15/12 at 10:24:18
 
At statehood, the federal government promised all states that it would transfer title for all public lands within the states. The U.S. Supreme Court has called these promises “solemn compacts,” “bilateral (two-way) agreements,” and “solemn trusts” that must be performed “in a timely fashion.”
 
The western states are still waiting for the federal government to keep its promise.
 
http://youtu.be/xa-01eaQIs8
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #1 - 02/16/12 at 20:41:56
 
Don't hold your breath.
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“O ye that love mankind!
Ye that dare oppose, not only tyranny, but the tyrant, stand forth!
‘Tis not in numbers but in unity that our great strength lies.”

-Thomas Paine
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #2 - 02/16/12 at 20:55:35
 
Legitimate grievances--absurd legal argument.  Stuff like this just makes it too easy for the other side.
 
Here's what the Utah Enabling Act actually says:  "That the people inhabiting said proposed State do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries thereof. . ."  How's that for a solemn promise?
 
We need to make our case with intelligent, well-reasoned arguments.  This stuff is an embarrassment.
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #3 - 02/16/12 at 22:48:08
 
I should keep my mouth shut, but what the hell, I'm bored.....  so .....
 
Be very careful what you wish for folks.   I have no doubt that should public lands be transfered to any given State, that the State would have no problem in putting said lands up for public auction should they find their coffers a bit low and want some more money for public education.  Many times in the past couple of decades the state of Utah has put up lands for sale to the highest bidder.   Wouldn't that be a sad way to see your treasured trails and riding areas disposed of for the good of all.   I know everyone is fed up with the feds and their management, and rightfully so from time to time.  But if you think a State can manage these public lands better... well, ya might want to check out what yer smoking...  
 
Just some food for thought.....  Wink
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #4 - 02/18/12 at 18:12:03
 
Okay , but .....
 
  How many times has the Federal Government come in and shut down an area that could produce BILLIONS in revenue , basically generating enough revenue to keep the schools in the State of Utah going?  In Wyoming their schools are all paid for from revenue from gas/oil/coal  and they have no State income tax .    
 
  Can't think of when something like this has happened ? Can you say Grand Staircase  Escalante ?  
 
   Sorry .... but I'll take my chances with the State of Utah .  
 
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #5 - 02/18/12 at 18:46:18
 
Quad.... am sure many these days would take the State over the feds.  And yer right, feds have done some dumb things that have cost riding opportunities.  But as I see it, the State couldn't manage the federal lands in Utah.  They can't even keep their parks up and running; having taken more than a 50% hit in past two years.  If State took over the federal lands they would have to generate revenue from those lands to pay for the administration of them.  That means charging folks who use them.  At least the feds arn't charging you, yet, to use your National Forests.  I'm speculating that if these lands were State managed, you'd quickly see a fee, over and above what your all ready paying, to enter, ride and enjoy.  
 
Just my opinion...  I know I'm a partially reformed buracrate... so chalk it up to bias....  I did enjoy a career as one of those blood sucking federal sponges that suck the life out of everyone and everything, but would like to think I did some good along the way.  Point is pretty moot.... sagebursh rebellion might get a head of steam, but hasn't got one change in a 1000 of suceeding.  
 
 Wink
 
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #6 - 02/18/12 at 19:13:19
 
Your right Max , but ....
 
 
If I could have my way I would envision a world where the management of land was divided equally . County , State and Federal  would all have an equal say in the management of Public Land  . You have done some fantastic  things in your career but I think that you will agree that the Feds come up with some brainless ideas  that locals can't understand  and can't stomach either . Why not give more ( not all )control to the people that live in an affected area ? Why should Bill Clinton  build a monument  where locals don't want it ?  
 
I won't take anything away from all the good that you and others have done . There's even folks in the FS in Richfield now that I think the world of . Grin  I'm just tired of losing more , year after year .
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #7 - 02/18/12 at 19:25:28
 
BTW , as far as the Sagebrush rebellion ( or take Back Utah ) succeeding, just watch what is going on with Herbert and the State right now . Kane County laid the ground work with quiet title on roads in their County  and now the State is after the whole  enchilada . Is it just  for   OHVers ? Don't believe it for a second . It's tax dollars pure and simple .  
 
I wouldn't bet against the State winning this . Mike lee figured out the argument and  Kane County won the case . The State is using the same argument .  
 
The point of the Sagebrush Rebellion was to tell public officials what we want and get after it . I think they   got after it .
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #8 - 02/19/12 at 01:38:44
 
Since I'm up dealing with a sick kid in the middle of the night, I figure why not add my two cents, uninformed as it well may be.  
 
I've been idly speculating to myself lately about how Washington can get closer to balancing the ballooning Fed budget, and for some reason I keep thinking that, at least in Utah, the Dept of Natural Resources/DNR could do a respectable job managing BLM and Forest Service lands currently handled by feds.  What if the feds just eliminated the BLM & USFS while keeping control of the Nat'l Park System?  
 
I know, as ranger says, it's like wishing in one hand as the old saying goes, or in other words, it'll probably never happen -- but for example -- law enforcement on these fed lands is already woefully inadequate.  Sheriff deputies could do a better job of it in their respective counties, manpower-wise, than the one LE ranger does for the whole Nat'l Forest.  Ditto BLM lands, which deputies already cover much more thoroughly than the BLM ranger does, at least in southern UT.  Expand the role of the Division of Wildlife Resource/DWR officers, who currently work under the DNR's umbrella, and I think more and better law enforcement would be accomplished.  
 
Obviously the administration of said lands would require expansion of the DNR in budget and personnel, and there are many issues such as wildland firefighting where huge operational holes would need filling, but these are things I keep thinking about when I see headline after headline about:  the budget deficit, federal land control issues (especially road/trail closures), expensive state vs fed lawsuits, and so on.  Hopefully it's clear that I understand how unrealistic these ideas are for actual implementation as things currently stand, and so many fed employees losing their jobs would be tough to stomach, but this is just me doing what everyone else is, looking for a way (or several ways) out of our current mess.  My rant is over, time to sack out.
 
Jeff
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #9 - 02/20/12 at 09:51:47
 
Easy.... hope your kid is feeling better.... enjoyed your insight....
 
 Wink
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #10 - 02/20/12 at 11:14:28
 
I love finding things like this and posting them to see what conversation then results Smiley
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #11 - 02/21/12 at 06:48:15
 
You always were one of those Piute County troublemakers ...... Smiley
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #12 - 02/21/12 at 11:25:11
 
Quote from quadforce on 02/21/12 at 06:48:15:
You always were one of those Piute County troublemakers ...... Smiley

 
isn't that a case of the pot calling the kettle black?  
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #13 - 02/21/12 at 15:44:03
 
No . Absolutely positively not .  
 
I was a Sevier County troublemaker . Smiley
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #14 - 02/23/12 at 18:14:29
 
Quote from quadforce on 02/21/12 at 15:44:03:

I was a Sevier County troublemaker .

 
WAS???????  Huh
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Re: Are We Not A State (Utah)
Reply #15 - 02/24/12 at 06:47:47
 
That's correct .  Wink
 
I am now a reformed Sevier County Troublemaker and a a current  Weber  County Troublemaker . I think that  they would gladly give me back though .  
 
 
Can I come home ?? Smiley
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